tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN November 21, 2012 7:00pm-8:00pm PST
me. >> wow. yep, that was the moment one of my cameramen almost had his hand bitten up by a snow leopard. here at 9:00 p.m. eastern. happy thanksgiving everyone. piers, thanks very much. good evening, everyone. 10:00 on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. in jerusalem, where we're coming to you tonight. a new day here. entering day nine of the israel/hamas conflict. a cease-fire in effect. when word spread of the agreement, this was the reaction in gaza city. >> people took to the streets. massive traffic and crowds. they celebrated what they saw as a victory for hamas and for gaza. the question is will all of this hold or will this cheering end
in rockets crisscrossing the boardern once again? will people take cover in their homes, will the celebrations ends and the fear return? for u.s. secretary of state hilary clinton and president morsi, the hope is that the deal will stick. it calls for freedom of movement for palestinians in and out of gaza and a commitment not to target militants and commitment from militant groups in gaza, to halt rocket fire into israel. again, a discussion nothing is a done deal. over the next hour, we'll look at negotiations still happening now, we'll also hear from the spokeswoman for the israeli defense forces and the leader much hamas. plus, a reporter on the ground and whole lot more. we begin with a look at what has transpired over the last 24 hours, and it's remarkable there is a cease-fire at this hour when you consider how this wednesday started off. take a look.
at mid day, no sign of a truce when a city bus is bombed in tell aviv, two dozen people twounded. terrorists left two bombs on the bus and fled. only one exploded. hamas praised attack, near the headquarters of the israeli defense forces. farther south, an israeli home hit by a rocket. room after room, left in ruins. according to the israeli military, more than 60 rockets were fired from gaza today, more than 40 landing in southern israel. others were intercepted. across the border in gaza several large explosions throughout the morning and afternoon. 100 strikes confirmed by israeli authorities today before the cease-fire. the skyline of gaza city covered in smoke. the city on edge. on some streets, buildings were turned to rubble. ar arwa damon got a look what's left behind.
>> there used to be a small, rarely well known shop. selling wedding dresses, party dresses, a bouquet lying in the rubble. the target was the splice stati police station behind it. >> after intense negotiations, secretary of state clinton and president morsi announced a cease-fire. >> the united states welcomes a cease-fire in gaza for it to hold, the rocket attacks must end. >> a short time later, benjamin netanyahu talks with reporters. >> translator: i know there are those who expect an even more intense military response. and that may perhaps be needed. but at this time, the right thing for the state of israel is to exhaust this opportunity to obtain a long-term cease-fire. >> throughout gaza celebratory
gunfire rings out. the leader of hamas remains defiant. >> translator: israel, in all of its goals have failed, thanks to god. >> and on the streets of gaza city, massive crowds and traffic. the tension seemingly gone as people celebrate the cease-fire and leave their homes for the first time in days. >> i haven't seen this many people in the streets of gaza for quite some time, you can hear the mosques blaring, hongs honking, people whistling, cheering. >> and let's go over to gaza city. ben wedeman is there with arwa damon reporting. ben, i assume it's quieted down. it's 3:00 a.m. a little after 3:00 a.m. there. let's move the story forward, what happens now? >> well, we really -- the next sort of 24 hours is critical. we can still hear the drones
overhead. israeli troops are on the border of gaza. if the cease-fire holds, if there are not major violations and the israeli military has expressed the realization that there may be some violations, but if nothing major occurs, then they will be able to start actually talking about some of the details that were laid out in the agreement that was worked out between hamas and israel with the help of the egyptians, things like opening of the crossings, easing of travel restrictions, certainly hamas is going to welcome the fact that they will no longer be moving targets whenever we step outside their houses here in gaza. so it's really -- if we can get through a period of relative quiet and peace, then they can start working on something a little more permanent than just 24 hours of relative quiet. anderson. >> and ar wa, i can hear in the stis behind you, i can hear those drones still overhead, a
sound we've heard a lot over the last eight or nine days, you've spoken with a lot of people today, a lot of people this evening, how do they see it? >> well, there's, of course, a sense of relief understandably, even if the cease-fire does not hold, that for the time being, they are able to get out. we were down in the streets amongst them, many of them celebrating. they were saying what they were calling hamas' victory. a victory for the palestinians, others saying they were simply out celebrating because they could. because they had spent so many days cooped up. entire vehicles with children packed inside them. one father saying his kids had begged him to take them out, because they had spent so much time indoors is and just an overwhelming sense of relief for at least one night for now, people can get some sleep and be at ease with the knowledge that at least for now there won't be that unexpected strike near
their home. >> ben, you and i have talked about this a lot the last couple of nights, the level of support hamas has among people in gaza. talk about that a little bit, and the -- the decision made tonight, the cease-fire, how does that bolster hamas? >> well, it bolsters hamas in the sense that they were able to, a, confront israel, to really, you know, provide a military challenge to israel, and emerge from it without leaving large swaths of gaza in rubble. what we saw four years ago, they had another confrontation with israel. israel sent in the ground troops, a 22-day bruising war with 1,400 people killed. after that, there was a good deal of resentment against hamas for sort of getting gaza into that mess. this time around, the mess has been avoided in relative terms
compared to the last four years, and hamas can say as a result of this war, we have something to show. an easing of the crossings, an end to israeli military operations and air strikes within gaza. these targeted air strikes, not talking about the campaign of bombing of the last eight days. they do have something to show for the suffering happening here and that is something that will bolster their position. is hamas popular? not necessarily, there are a lot of people who benefit from it, but many palestinians here in gaza really do feel hamas is by no means a democratic regime and a regime that doesn't have much tolerance for any sort of dissent. anderson. >> yeah, we certainly have seen that. arwa damon, ben wedeman, stay with us. i want to bring in a spokesman for the israeli defense forces joining me in jerusalem. i'm curious to know your
thoughts on this cease-fire. the devil's in the details, and you want to see what's going to happen in the next 24 hours. the israeli troops that had massed on the border, are they staying there? >> they are staying there only for the night. tomorrow, we'll have an operational assessment and decide what to do with the soldiers. many some of them will be sent home. just to see if the situation stabilizes. >> if it stabilizes, do you know, can you comment on whether the drones will continue to fly? >> the drones is a totally different issue, it has something to do with intelligence, but we won't attack gaza. we are respecting the cease-fire. however, if a launcher with a launching squad will attempt to target us, we will target that launching squad. >> there have been some rockets fired toward israeli. >> since 9:00 israeli time, five rockets have been fired, two were intercepted, three landed in israel.
>> how do you view that? >> we try to take it in proportion and see this is just the beginning of the cease-fire. this is why we haven't responded. and as i said before, the next coming weeks will really determine where exactly are we headi heading. >> even though there are five rockets fired, beyond the iron dome response, you haven't responded to try and take out where those rockets were fired from? >> right. we are practicing our restraint. >> in terms of hamas, what does this mean for israel's relationship with hamas? >> well, first of all, hamas suffered a very harsh blow in this operation. we targeted quite a large part of its arsenal. the fadr-5, the iranian-manufactured missiles, that reach all the way to tell aviv, jerusalem distance. i think they were surprised by
our intelligence. so the combination of the surprise effect, the good intelligence, and the very accurate targets, i think caused quite a big shock to hamas. >> obviously, israel in the past has dealt with palestinian authority. they do not recognize hamas, and can you foresee a day where that changes? where israel sits down with hamas? >> this is really political etch loan, but i don't see a near time of -- you know, a day that will be in the near future for this kind of reconciliation. >> there are clearly a number of israelis who wanted more of an operation. prime minister netanyahu spoke about that. what would a ground operation have looked like from the idf perspective? >> a lot of forces, maybe even tens of thousands. going deeply into the rockets area where the storage is. looking for those tunnels
exactly, because we have bombed something like 140 tunnels in the current operation, out of 400. so going deeply into those places and those civilian areas, where the -- the weaponry and the ammunition is wrareally hid there. this is something you can do only with ground forces. >> do you have any idea that hamas, how many they still have left? >> a small number to our estimation. however -- >> like dozens or -- >> yeah, even less than dozens, keep in mind that iran will try to smuggle in more rockets of this kind since we have them in this arsenal. >> you have no doubt even under the cease-fire that hamas and other groups will try and get more rockets brought in? >> i hope it won't happen. i hope hamas will respect the cease-fire. it's an option. it happened in the past many times. we have to be alert for this option. >> thank you for being with us.
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at meineke i have options... like oil changes starting at $19.95. my money. my choice. my meineke. that was the scene in gaza city earlier today before the cease-fire was announced. also today, a bus bombing in tell aviv wounded more than 20 people. at least two bombs maplanted on the bus. only one detonated it happened near the security headquarters in tell aviv. we had an exclusive interview with the leader of hamas in
cairo and asked him about the attack. >> i'm asking you, did hamas claim responsibility? did hamas do that? >> translator: not hamas, not other people, not hamas. no one can announce except those who commit it, not me. the building lesson is what matters. who committed the circumstances that led to this operation. it is netanyahu with his crimes in killing the kids of gaza. and he creates such ramifications everywhere. this could lead to any kind of reaction as retaliation for what happened in gaza. >> our reporters in gaza city said when that -- when the bombing was announced from loud speakers in hamas, there was celebratory gunfire in gaza city. i spoke to christianne amanpour
about her interview. >> you pressed on whether they would ever recognize israel. he gave a lot of talking points. this is finally what he to say. let's listen. >> you say you would accept a two-state solution but won't recognize israel's right to exist. >> i accept the state of the 1967. how can i accept israel? they have occupied my land. i need recognition, not the israelis. this is a reverse question. >> what do you make of what he said? >> well, i kept pushing him and saying you say this is a reverse question, but it is the question. recognition of israel, and after several times, he said, look, when there is a peace agreement, then the palestinians can decide themselves. that was his final point on that which i thought was really
interesting and interesting to hear the head of hamas say that, and he has become quite the figure at the moment. you know, anderson, far from being isolates as the u.s. and israel always wanted to do, now with the muslim brotherhood brin spring, people have been beating down the doors and stand shoulder to shoulder with hamas. they have come out with somewhat elevated stature. >> how does that change the dynamic with mahmoud abbas, the palestinian authority, the group israel and the united states has been trying to deal with, and trying to politically isolate hamas by not recognizing them? well, i think this must be a nightmare for the palestinian authority and abbas, all of the attention on hamas in gaza.
and ishma i think what's really interesting is if indeed the parameters of this cease-fire include a lifting of the blockade of gaza, easing of restrictions, trade in commerce, travel restrictions and for the israelis if it results in a lack of rockets coming into israel, no more rockets being fired into israel and no resupply of weapons to gaza, then perhaps there is something to build on, but the fact of the matter is it looks like hamas is a force to be reckoned with even after eight days or more of war. >> and negotiations if the cease-fire holds, are to begin for these next steps? >> yes, obviously this is a cease-fire, but many more things to be built on it, the interesting thing which didn't happen before is that egypt, the
leading player in getting this cease-fire is a guarantor of the cease-fire, that was something that israel wanted and hamas wanted as well. but israeli officials told me in jerusalem, they didn't want to go into another nebulous cease-fire, they wanted real partners as they said to guarantee it, and if there is a problem and somebody has been violating it, they can go and talk to the guarantor, so that is a bit of a change as well. christianne amanpour, thank you. u.n. secretary-general ban ki-moon says long-term solutions are necessary to address the underlying causes of conflict. joining me now is michael orin, the ambassador to the united states from israel. we heard about residents along
the gaza border who are doubtful about the ability long term to maintain the cease-fire and live up to the agreements and make progress on agreements. how can you guarantee that hamas will not use this and other groups like islamic jihad as an opportunity to rearm, to restock supplies of sophisticated weapons we have seen them happen? >> good to be back with you, anderson, as always, you can understand some israelis are -- are incredulous, a little skeptical about the cease-fire. they have been living under weekly, if not daily rocket attacks from hamas since israel pulled out of gaza in 2005, and, yes, they have seen various cease fires and seen them being violated again and again by hamas. prime minister netanyahu took a courageous decision. president obama asked him to take a risk on the cease-fire, and prime minister netanyahu out of respect for the president, out of appreciation for everything that america has done
in the conflict, particularly in supporting the iron dome, and prime minister netanyahu agreed to the cease-fire. there are no gauche tees. israel will always reserve the right to defend ourselves, should hamas start shooting at aus again. we have no desire for conflict. we want to live in peace with neighbors amongst ourselves and if hamas doesn't fire to us, hamas has nothing to worry about from the state of israel. >> i mean, but do you see now egypt playing a greater role in starting to stop the flow of weapons from -- in the tunnels, which is where a lot of rockets are coming through, through sign yay, sudan, and then through the tunnels? >> we greatly appreciate egypt's role in this. egypt made a positive contribution to realizing the cease-fire, but, yes, egypt has a role also in blocking the flow of smuggled arms from iran.
through sudan or libya. both roots pass through egyptian territory before arriving in gaza. >> according to the terms vt cease-fire, the under lying cease-fire, it will be addressed after 24 hours of the cease-fire being in effect. to be clear, if we see no sign of aggression from gaza within 24 hours, issues will be built with immediately thereafter? >> it will certainly be discussed. certainly be discussed. we've had our border crossings open to gaza for virtually every type of material. no food shortage, medical shortage, for certain materials which we call dual use, like aluminum tubing that can also be used to make missiles. that was passed on to nongovernment or u.n. organizations we can trust. a big question about the border between gaza and egypt and the degree to which that will be open as well.
>> according to senior obama administration official, it was president obama's two phone calls today that "closed the de deal." is that accurate to your understanding of how things played out? what did the u.s. offer to various parties to sweeten the deal? >> president obama played an outstanding leadership role in helping to achieve the cease-fire and hillary clinton who shuttled without stop between jerusalem, ramallah and cairo and instrumental in achievementing the agreement. the support for israel, diplomatically, outstanding, beside us and upholding our right to defend ourselves, that was very important for us, and also important for the iron on dome missile system which you saw working so outstandingly, taking down 85% to 90% of incoming rockets and denying hamas the opportunity or ability to strike at our 5 1/2 million
israelis who were under rocket fire. >> we talked about this, ambassador, a few hours ago. now there are five rocks launched, a number of them intercepted. three of them landed in southern israel. how do you see that? how seriously do you say that in terms of a violation of the cease-fire thus far? >> we assumed it would take a while for the cease-fire to take hold. it has taken hold, hasn't been fire for a while, and, of course, we are notiring, so there is a cease-fire anderson. >> ambassador oren, appreciate your time tonight, thank you. >> thank you. as the ambassador said, right now rockets are silent. but death and deconstruction on both sides. i will speak with former senator george mitchell, president obama's special envoy to the middle east. what it's like inside the negotiating rooms in this, with the most difficult of all solutions to try to come up
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so this is ab assortment of rockets that have fallen over the ashkelon area. this is not all of them, just some of them. various types of rockets you can fin here. this is a grab rocket, you can tell by the fines that pop out when the rockets get launched this one is one of the home made kassam rockets. you can tell, the fins are welded on in a rudimentary way. >> before the cease-fire, he and
his crew, forced to take cover a number of times. one american diplomat who understand the difficulty what it took to negotiate the cease-fire and what it's going to take to maintain it, former senator george mitchell. special envoy to the middle east from 2009 to 2011. mitchell held the post of senate majority leader, schooled in the art of negotiating. and in 1990s, he served as chair of peace negotiations in northern ireland that led to the successful good friday peace agreement. i spoke to him about the difficulties that lie ahead. how optimistic are that you this cease-fire can hold, and what would the next steps be? assuming it does hold? >> it's a big step forward, the violence has ended, and that's critically important, the longer it goes on with more fighting and dying, the hard ter er it i solve any problem. it will be difficult to have a
really enforceable truce over a long period of time. there may be a recognition here that both side's interests can be served by stopping this kind of violence and getting down to the underlying issues that involved both. >> in terms of a larger peace agreement. a larger negotiation, how complicated does it become because of the divisions within palestinian groups, between afatah, hamas and also involvement of other groups, factions, is halfic jihad. >> very complicated. by far and away the most complicated situation i've been involved in. and far beyond what you described. it makes it very difficult. in fact, both societies are divided. israel has an election coming up in two months.
we don't know what the outcome of that will be, and the arab spring has created a new dynamic in the region. not before experience which hopefully can behar necessaried of moving forward in the peace process and also could provide some obstacles. the most complicated situation imaginable, anderson, and -- i think even though we vaeb been able to do it in the past. we have to keep doing it important for the people there, the region, and the interest of the united states. >> egypt's role is beyond just a guarantor and negotiating partner, if -- if israel's confidence in their own security is to be assured, the flow of weapons into gaza has to stop, and egypt will play a critical role in that, and it seems like a large number of rockets, the fadra-5, fadra-3, being smuggled in tunnels through egypt. >> that's right. and that's not new, anderson. the nearly three years i was there, that was a constant
subject of discussion c controver controversy. not easy for egypt. a vast territory, much of it desert. not very well policed, not very well governed. a lot of competing local interests. the b bedouin interests. egypt is undertaking a major role here and how they are able to succeed in that will go a long way toward deciding how much the whole process moves forward. they are commended to what they've done so far. >> this may be a dumb question, a naive question. when are you in the negotiating rooms, there yelling? is there -- are there arguments, or is it very kind of calm and rational? >> well, in my case, almost all of the discussions were with one side at a time. they wouldn't talk to each other, so there were a few indications of raised voices, the two did not correctly come
together. when we did have the brief meetings between prime minister netanyahu and abbas, they were straight forward. they made the points emphatically, both sides. it will be some time i think before you are going to get an israeli representative in the same room with the representative from hamas. tough enough to get him in the same room with a palestinian authority, which i said is committed to nonviolent and negotiations. >> i'm curious, when you interview people from various factions, they go into talking points and use a lot of rhetoric is that that way when it's you one-on-one with them? do you have to sit through a lot of rhetoric? or does everyone cut to the chase when it's one-on-one. no cameras around? >> you have to sit through a lot of rhetoric. if you don't have patience,
perseverance, the ability to sit and listens for long period of time, don't get into the business of resolving conflicts. in northern ireland, i sat through thousands of repetitious hours and there was yelling, insults, people storming out of the room, storming back, demanding the other side be thrown out. quite a bit of that, and you have to have a huge reservoir of patience, sit there, listen to it all, let everybody have their say. but you have to identify self-interest. peace cannot be imposed from the outside unless you do it by overwhelming force of arms which is obviously not the case here. the parties have to want peace themselves. they can't rely upon the united states or any outside pow er to bring them to peace. since the creation of israel, we've had 19 american secretary
of states, kounsless enjoys like myself and it didn't get done. but it's important that we have to keep trying. >> senator mitchell, really appreciate your time. fascinating to listen to you. thank you. >> thanks, anderson. >> a much different scene in gaza city than what we saw this morning. we'll check in ben wedeman to find out what's going on right now, whether surveillance drones are still flying.
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cease-fire began to spread. people cooped up in their homes for days. pouring into the streets. waving flags, happy -- not only for the cease-fire, which many saw as vaktry for hamas, a victory for palestinians, some just happy to get out of the house after days of bombardment and fear. israeli defense forces say five rockets were fired from gaza within three hours of the cease-fire announcement. in the days and weeks ahead will be crucial. joining me is fareed zakaria. host of "fareed zakaria gps" and back us with is senior international correspondent ben wedeman in gaza city. we checked in with you at the top of the program. any change in the situation in gaza city? i imagine things quiet. celebrations earlier. i assume the drones are still flying?
so quiet i can hear the chickens downstairs. the sound of the drones was drowned out when people were out celebrating. now they are back and it really is a reminder that gaza is very much under the control of the israelis, control the sti, control with boats off the coast. and with the war money as well. much as changed in the last eight days, but much hasn't. anderson. >> ben, if your opinion, what does this mean for the power of hamas and the power of the palestinian authority and mahmoud abbas? is this some accident nonement that, a, the attempt by u.s. and israel to politically isolate hamas has failed? and the future lies with hamas as opposed with mahmoud abbas? >> well, i don't think the united states is about to switch sides and start backing hamas. but it does, indeed, represent
failure of the policy that was put into effect after the january 2006 elections here in the palestinian territories, where the united states with israel, with the european union, began to impose some fairly stringent restrictions on hamas, and in an attempt to isolate it. in june 2007, it's widely believed the united states sort of passively supported an attempted coup d'etat by fatah to outst hamas from power and they failed. and hamas has survived two wars with israel so to speak and survived all of the isolation, all of the sanctions and we've seen within the last eight days, senior arab foreign ministers, we've seen the turkish foreign minister come.
hamas suddenly out of isolation. now in the mainstream, largely because of the changes in the arab world because of the so-called arab spring, anderson. >> fareed zachrrhea, we've scene plenty of cease fires before. any reason to believe this one will be different? that it will lead to go more long-term? >> i think it is unlikely to lead to something long term unless israel want it to. very unlikely that the cease-fire will break down completely and that the conflict will spread, one of the things a lot of people have said. the reality, anderson, to put this into context, israel is the military superpower of the region. been has wonderfully documented for us, the incredible asymmetry of power. when egyptians think about getting involved or the turks think about getting involved, they realize they are up against an israeli military far superior to anything they have, and certainly far superior to anything even ten years ago. the israelis spend more pomoneyn
their defense budget than all their neighbors combined. a whole different league, partly because of technologies, partly because the economy is doing so well. the reality, that is a very strong deterrent to the egyptians or to the turks to get involved. >> >>. >> fareed, what does this mean about iran? the power and involvement of iran? >> i think it shows their limits, bogged down with their ally syria. trying to do something about that. i doubt they were involved very much with this in the first place. they don't have much of a reach. this has always been the claim, through hezbollah and hamas, they had some special asymmetrical power. israel really dominates the region. if the israelis want to make peace -- palestinians want peace, they will make it on israeli terms right now.
>> anne marie, do you agree with that? >> well, part. one thing i would note, one of the reasons that israel has such military predominance is also because of the tremendous support the obama administration has given israel on defense matters. have you heard ambassador oren refer to u.s. assistance on iron dome, and the obama administration has pointed out multiple times, it has given israeli more cooperate than any other administration. i agree with fareed. where i would disagree a little. i think hamas has shown that notwithstanding two israeli incursion and sanctions, not only survived, but increased its ability to inflict pain on
israel. over the course of the last week, we've seen rockets land in tell aviv and jerusalem, so i totally agree that iran can't level the military playing field, not even close, but i do think hamas has more power and political recognition than we might have expected. >> the interesting question will be -- >> go ahead. >> the interesting question will be whether hamas gains from had politically. what they have been able to do is survive. they have been able to survive. pin prick attacks, undecided missiles very infected. and they have caused them to go into procedures where they go into shelters, they really don't kill people and certainly don't disrupt israel gl? a meaningful sense. are they more popular on the street? a lot of evidence that both fatah and hamas are actually very unpopular with the palestinian people. sort of stuck with them.
partly because of the israeli block aid and they don't want to oust hamas, but they are not very popular. >> ben wedeman, have you been saying that also for several nights, they are not all that popular. >> no, they are not popular and fareed issan right to point out that fatah itself is not popular. i think many palestinians are weary of being caught between these two factions, which neither of which is really achieved what they want, which is some sort of final solution and the ability to live in a state of their own in peace. fatah was a major engine behind the second insta-fadda, which really didn't leave the palestinians in the way of positive results. hamas sort of gotten gaza into endless trouble with israel. people here are indeed looking
for some sort of third alternative, that they can negotiate with israel, that they can stay out of sort of the swamp of corruption that fatah fell into, and many people in gaza say hamas has gotten into with all of the money it's making with the tunnels and whatnot. so, yes, i think there is an exhaugs with both parties, but we've yet to see a third alternative. >> thank you very much. we're following a number of other stories, suzanne hendrix with the news and business bullet bulletin, also susan rice speaking out for the first time about the situation in benghazi. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] it's simple physics...
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welcome back. we're in jerusalem tonight. following a number of other stories. susan hendricks here with a 360 news bulletin. u.s. ambassador susan rice is responding to republicans criticizing her for initially blaming the benghazi attack on protesters angry over anti pl muslim video. she said she was relaying information provided by the intelligence committee and made clear that it was preliminary. jesse jackson jr. resigned today. chicago voters just elected jackson to his tenth term, despite being under investigation. stores are expecting smaller
crowds this black friday. the national retail federation is predicting 147 million people will go bargain hunting this weekend, down from 220 million last year. the report mainly blames the slow economy and concerns over the fiscal cliff. wrr. >> call calder the luckiest turkey in america, after receiving an official poardon from the president. >> we'll be right back. with verizon. hurry in this friday for great deals. like the droid razr by motorola in cranberry, free. or a white 7-inch samsung galaxy tab 2, just $99.99.
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